HW 50 First Third of Care of the Dead Book Post

Jokinen, Tom. Curtains Adventures of an Undertaker-In-Training.

Precis

I have begun to explore the life of an undertaker since I quit my government job. I'm trying to place myself in the culture of the care of the dead with my new job. Fortunately I still have some old tricks and prior knowledge from my past job experience.  While becoming so intimate with care of the dead I really am learning to take a look in the mirror and understand my own thoughts on the matter, as well as societies take on things. I'm finding myself unable to adapt to the smell of all the chemicals used on the dead  who already smell bad if you ask me. To help protect the innocence of the dead we whisk them away to the next life in  extravagant caskets, and  use pink and purple lipstick to give them more of a lifelike feel.

Quotes

• "In my head, it sounds like a fairy-tale: the dead come from a magic place called the Silver Doors, from which they are whisked into boxes or made to drink potions that turn them from yellow to green, then they're painted pink and purple and powdered, and some are baked in an oven where they are turned into flour by special death-fairies" (Jokinen 19).
• "In the office, Richard's quick estimate, not including cemetery expenses, comes to $7,680, which he rounds up to $7,900 to provide wiggle room. Then if the final bill is less than the estimate, they'll feel like they got a deal" (Jokinen 39).
• "To me, the heart of the debate she left behind is a nagging question: what is the body, anyway?Is it charged,mystical, something to be marked and honored with ceremony and balm, or is it "discarded clothing"?(Jokinen 33)

Analysis

After reading  the first third of Curtains, I have literally been able to picture everything I've read. It's basically the book's plot colliding with my own experiences at a funeral home. I find myself saying " I don't remember that", I wonder what that's like in person."  Similar to all of our previous units there are the clear dominant social practices, some being nightmarish atrociously industrialized . Tom really uses his humor and real life experience to show me what its like to be a undertaker. He doesn't really use historical information and this saddens me a lot because I'm one of the people who like to see how these systems evolved.The most interesting part of the first third of the book is the part where he mentions the many techniques that he and his staff use when selling coffins. The author also stated one line that really caught my attention was " Mitford saw embalming as a way to "make the corpse presentable for viewing in a suitably costly container. And only North Americans still did it."This specific line really gave me more of an understanding of the funeral homes jobs and responsibilities no matter how silly or absurd they may be.

HW 49: Comments on Best of Your Break Homework

Comment on My Homework 46:

For Bianca(T/W Team): Bianca,


Your most beautiful line was, " Some may say that to care for the dead without intentions of manifesting love is cruel but, it is an act that will benefit someone nonetheless and I believe that is certainly one of main goals in the infrastructure created to deal with death." I believe this is a very strong point and one that I haven't really heard before. For such an emotional experience I have found it nearly impossible to not feel sorrow/love for the deceased  but I know it's for the best deep down. As always you end your post on an incredibly strong note, by using a question which keeps the reader thinking. Unfortunately I don't know the answer to your questions because there to deep.
Excellent work Bianca

For Leah(T/W Team): Leah,


Your most beautiful line was, " Looking at him in the coffin was so unnatural just by the fact it wasn't "him." I know exactly how you feel due to personal experience, I know the undertakes and funeral home people try and do their best to make the dead look as 'alive' as possible, but frankly they just don't get the job done. The lipstick, no movements, the way the skin feels is all so fake. Your post brought up several interesting points and questions which I enjoyed.


As far as improvement goes you definitely should consider proofreading more. It really can make a difference. You should try doing you blog assignments in a word document since their spell check is much better and they catch more things than blogger does.


I will be reading you blogs a lot so I will know if you didn't take my advice seriously. Good job and take advantage of the feedback.

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From Ms D(Mentor): Thanks for sharing Abdul. The story about your uncle was touching. It seems ironic that you were pulled out of childhood to face death while in Little Shop of Horrors- although it seems that for you death was sad, rather than horrifying. You raise some very interesting questions. One article that I read about alternative practices is:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E1D91E30F936A15751C1A9629C8B63&pagewanted=all. I was also recently researching cremation, and discovered that it's possible to have your remains distributed in space! The 'ashes' (which aren't really ashes as you've probably discussed in class) are released from a spaceship into orbit. It costs thousands of dollars, but less than the $11,000 that you described. Some other fascinating practices are the Tibetan 'sky burial' which you can see in the movie Kundun- it involves bodies being taken into the sky via birds. It can look gruesome to an outsider, since the corpse is being pecked at and eaten by birds, but the idea behind it is beautiful, that the body is being taken to the sky and the soul released. I also just read a book called Death at Intervals, by Jose Saramago, which considers what would happen in a nation if everyone stopped dying. (The religious figures, for instance, became very upset, because they could no longer promise heaven or threaten hell.) It's a tough book but if you want to try it, I have it in my library. Lastly, what you said about how corpses should never be left lying out reminded me of how that travesty occurred over and over in New Orleans post-Katrina. You can see it for yourself in Spike Lee's When the Levees Broke. New Orleans in general has a unique and I think inspiring culture around death and funerals- look up "jazz funeral" if you don't know what I mean. Anyway, this is a fascinating subject and I'm looking forward to hearing how you answer your own questions and develop your thoughts on these issues.

From Stephen( Protege): Abdul,
You had very interesting stories to share, your family is truly unique. I'm very sorry for your lost but to hear your emotions and thoughts as a young child was incredibly interesting. Not many people are able to stare into the face of death like you are. You are very gutsy like "Bianca" said I'm not sure if I would have had the guts to go to another person's house and interview them about such a topic. Your most beautiful line was " Now at the age of 7 I wasn't smart enough to realize that we were helping him clean out his house because he was going to die soon, and wanted to give some mementos to us." This is something that basically everyone who has an experience with death at a young age can relate to.


Something you could have done better is to clarify this sentence "as for my immediate knowledge about care of the dead, I think I know all the basic insights that someone my age should know." It doesn't make and sense to me since you didn't actually state any of the basic insights you know, or that Americans are expected to know.


As usual I'm pleased with your consistent posts and as always I enjoy reading your work. Good job


Stephen

From Bianca(T/W Team): Abdul,
Thank you for sharing your story. I imagine that your emotions at the age of 9 were very raw and influential. I've actually never heard a story quite like the one you mentioned in your first paragraph. The act of going to another's house to choose mementos seems odd to me...I wonder why you chose to use "clean up" as a euphemism - it would have been interesting if you had explained why you subconsciously used the euphemism. I really liked your use of detail in line 7 of paragraph 1, "That was the last time I ever saw him alive. Now while in school doing a play called Little Shop Of Horrors I got a notice to leave immediately and go straight home." You created a clear scene in my mind that somehow seems very familiar but I am not sure why.

I feel as if I can connect to the whole concept of having to be struck with news of a dying relative as a young adolescent. All that seems to be necessary to do is to cry over and over. Please clarify this sentence: "If you see one you should call the cops immediately, and that they can never come back to life in their physical bodies again." It doesn't make sense to me according to the context of the short paragraph written.

Although vague, the $11,000 you mentioned was interesting. To think that giving peace to the dead would be priceless - who thought? The number certainly was thought-provoking and you should've furthered your ideas on that topic. You could've asked yourself: "What makes the seeing off of the dead worth the $11,000 cost, negligible?"
----Great Post. I look forward to reading more of your work.

Bianca

From Leah(T/W Team):Abdul,
I enjoyed reading your post. One of your questions that i found interesting was "
Is it more socially acceptable to have a funeral burial or be cremated, and is that an alternative to the dominant social practices?" I was thinking the same way also how do people in other countries deal with the care of the dead. One of the lines that stood out to me was when you said "My Uncle from my mom's side had just had us go to his house about a month or two before his death so we could help him "clean up" because lots of times when we are young we aren't always told the exact true about death because of our age and how we do not percieve it as children. Just like you i was taught to respect the dead. It's funny how you mention that because if we didn't it's kind of like we have consequences of doing so. I thought that all you questions were well thought out and i hope to find the answers to them as well. Good Job!

Leah


From Rossi(Person who found my blog interesting):I found your style of writing very engaging and I enjoyed reading this post. The connection I have (little shop of horrors) makes the reading more entertaining to me, which helped me, pay closer attention to the work. I found it interesting how you were able to share an experience from so long ago and identify your ignorance. I connect to your work again, in the surprise of the cost of the whole funeral process. Reading the book Grave Matters by mark Harris, there are several things that need to be paid for. It is sad that people have to worry about money while they mourn for their loved ones. Overall I felt that your blog was interesting and engaging however one simple way to strengthen your writing is proofreading. There were some careless grammar and wording errors that could have easily be avoided by simply proofreading.

HW 48 Family Perspectives on the Care of the dead

To help me understand the perspectives of the people around me regarding the care of the dead, I decided to interview my mother since I am very close to her. The first question that I asked her was "How are dead people cared for in America?" She responded by saying "I mean, when I think of people dying, funeral and planning is the first thing that pops into my head. For me funerals are just as stressful as the grieving. Funeral planning and dealing with the will interferes with my grieving and makes the situation worse than it should be." This was an interesting response, because wills had never even crossed my mind. That's probably because I don't know to much about them. When I asked about my mothers experience with the care of the dead, she said that she had been to 7 funerals in her life. Six of these were in our family. My mom is in her mid 40's so I'm not sure if 7 funerals is average or not. I'm guessing she went to one almost once a decade. That's not to bad right? My mother was close to basically everyone of the family funerals since they were her grandparents, her aunts, her brothers(which was the hardest for us both), and her mother.Finally, I asked her about the different methods of dealing with bodies that she was aware of, and which way she would prefer for herself. "Abdul I want you to cremate me and either throw my ashes over the ocean or keep them in your house. I don't want you to have to deal with the funeral arrangements."


It seems as though money is something that my mother associates with care of the dead. The money problems often collide with the grieving process making things twice as hard to deal with. I think for our family in particular things would be must easier if we plan out the arrangements beforehand. This may seem like common knowledge, but our family seems to struggle with this concept, as certain people feel as though they aren't obligated to contribute causing tension between family members. Although my mother clearly didn't go into this much detail I was able to fill in the blanks since I was a observer to this happening. My mother also seems to have a different arrangement in mind  for herself, she want's to be cremated. The first thing people usually say when you ask them what arrangements do you want for yourself is a funeral. It's the dominant social practice for most people. My mother on the other hand chose cremation because she feels as though its less expensive. How thoughtful of her.

The next person I spoke to was my godmother, who I am quite close to since she lives down the hall. Our experiences with the care of the dead are very much alike since she went to my grandmothers funeral. When I asked her what she has noticed about the care of the dead, she said, " There is usually an awake a day or two before the actual funeral which is usually at a funeral home . I'm not really sure why that is but I always go to both. Then there is the day of the funeral which is usually at a church. Afterwards the family and friends are usually picked up in a limo and driven to the burial site where there is another small service." I thought this response was very interesting because not once did I hear anything about cremation. It certainly seems as though cremation is much more rare than a funeral burial. But why I ask myself why? ". I think being buried is better than being cremated because at least when your buried your remains mix with the Earth as they begin to decay. I like to think of it as "giving back". 


My godmother seems to first jump straight into funeral homes, and awakes. This is a very interesting observation because it shows how non-vast her mind is when associated with care of the dead. This isn't necessarily bad because she just knows no better. She doesn't even seem to acknowledge cremation in her response. I wonder if she looks down/pity's people who are cremated. I didn't ask what she thought about this because I didn't feel comfortable asking her so. My godmother has another interesting point since she says that the funerals are usually at church. Since she uses the word usually this must mean that she knows of other instances where a funeral isn't in a church. I wish I would have asked her to explain this more in depth as I might have even learned something from her, since I've never heard of a funeral not being in a church. 

HW 47 Peer Perspectives on Care of The Dead

To help me understand the perspectives of the people around me regarding the care of the dead, I decided to interview my mother since I am very close to her. The first question that I asked her was "How are dead people cared for in America?" She responded by saying "I mean, when I think of people dying, funeral and planning is the first thing that pops into my head. For me funerals are just as stressful as the grieving. Funeral planning and dealing with the will interferes with my grieving and makes the situation worse than it should be." This was an interesting response, because wills had never even crossed my mind. That's probably because I don't know to much about them. When I asked about my mothers experience with the care of the dead, she said that she had been to 7 funerals in her life. Six of these were in our family. My mom is in her mid 40's so I'm not sure if 7 funerals is average or not. I'm guessing she went to one almost once a decade. That's not to bad right? My mother was close to basically everyone of the family funerals since they were her grandparents, her aunts, her brothers(which was the hardest for us both), and her mother.Finally, I asked her about the different methods of dealing with bodies that she was aware of, and which way she would prefer for herself. "Abdul I want you to cremate me and either throw my ashes over the ocean or keep them in your house. I don't want you to have to deal with the funeral arrangements."

The next person I spoke to was my godmother, who I am quite close to since she lives down the hall. Our experiences with the care of the dead are very much alike since she went to my grandmothers funeral. When I asked her what she has noticed about the care of the dead, she said, " There is usually an awake a day or two before the actual funeral which is usually at a funeral home . I'm not really sure why that is but I always go to both. Then there is the day of the funeral which is usually at a church. Afterwards the family and friends are usually picked up in a limo and driven to the burial site where there is another small service." I thought this response was very interesting because not once did I hear anything about cremation. It certainly seems as though cremation is much more rare than a funeral burial. But why I ask myself why? ". I think being buried is better than being cremated because at least when your buried your remains mix with the Earth as they begin to decay. I like to think of it as "giving back". 

The last person that I decided to interview was my godmothers son who is 19. I kind of wanted to see if he would have similar or different opinions than his mother. After asking how he felt about the way the dead are cared for in America today, he responded, "Funerals are slowly changing, people are beginning to look at them differently as if their negative occasions. Funerals are supposed to be about the celebrating of the life of the deceased ." I mean funerals will always be a sad place for people as long as they are genuinely sad with the death of their loved ones but, there really should be more after occasion celebrations."The last question I asked him was if he would prefer a cremation or a burial for himself. I had to prompt him with a straightforward question since he was beginning to get off topic and beat around the bush. " I would definitely want to be buried because I want people to come and celebrate my life together. One thing I like about funerals is they really can bring people together and unite them as one.That's what I love."

Each of the three people I chose to interview had a unique element to give to me. Many of these ideas were still quite similar and mixed with hand in hand with some of my own opinions. It's always fun to do this homework assignments because I get to peer into societies mind and figure out what they think and what they know. 

HW 46 Initial Thoughts On The Care Of The Dead

My experiences with the care of dead people are quite interesting. My first experience with death was when I was in 3rd grade. My Uncle from my mom's side had just had us go to his house about a month or two before his death so we could help him "clean up". Now at the age of 7 I wasn't smart enough to realize that we were helping him clean out his house because he was going to die soon, and wanted to give some mementos to us. That was the last time I ever saw him alive. Now while in school doing a play called Little Shop Of Horrors I got a notice to leave immediately and go straight home. I arrived home about an hour after the notice and my mother broke down the situation to me. She didn't leave out anything even explaining to me the way he died (AIDS). About a week later it was time for the funeral. We met up in Brooklyn,New York and drove a limousine to the funeral site. I specifically remember being in the car with all my cousins who ranged from ages 5-10 us all crying at the same time and realizing our uncle was never coming back,and we weren't even going to see what he looked like. Since it was such an emotional experience it has lingered in my long term memory, thus resulting in a clear and accurate story.


The way I've been taught to think towards dead people is to show respect to them since their dead. If you don't they may come back to life and haunt you forever. I've been taught to act towards dead people in a respectful way. If you see one you should call the cops immediately, and that they can never come back to life in their physical bodies again.


 As for my immediate knowledge about care of the dead, I think I know all the basic insights that someone my age should know. I believe it;s illegal to not bury/cremation a dead person. When I say illegal I mean as in you can't keep the body in your backyard. The most common one being, dead people begin to smell after a while and there is a very distinct smell. When were asked to think of what we already know about Care of The Dead in class, almost everyone talked about their experiences with funerals burials,and cremations. It surprises me that funerals are so expensive. It's actually ridiculous my grandmother's funeral was $11,000. I don’t have a lot of knowledge of cremation but I think it would be considered  an alternative to the dominant social practice which would be funeral burial.


Questions:
1.How did past cultures(Ancient Greeks,Ancient Romans, Mayans, Aztecs) deal with the care of their dead?
2.Are the alternatives social practices more difficult to reach/attain as they have been in the previous units?
3. Is it more socially acceptable to have a funeral burial or be cremated, and is that an alternative to the dominant social practices?
4.Has there been much movement to prevent the nightmarish industrial atrocities, and if so how are we comparing to other countries with this atrocity( Example: Is Care of The Dead more humane  in Japan oppose to America, and how can we fix this?)?
5. Where did the superstition of ghosts come from, did it have something to do with the way we treat dead people?
6. What rituals surrounding the care of the dead are there?

HW 45:Reply To Other Comments:

Kevin's Comment Said: This project focused on comparing the benefits of home and hospital birth. In the project you support home birth as a good alternative for hospital birth. You also show other people's opinions and education about home birth. 
As someone that doesn't support the home birth movement, the way you presented information, as well as the range of sources created a pretty persuasive paper. 
This paper matters to me because it advocates for home birth, which is basically the opposite of my project. It is nice to read what some other people think on the same issue. 
Bianca said some of what you wrote was cliche, but as Andy will soon realize cliches make the world go round. Keep the cliches, but watch out for grammar mistakes, and keeping your ideas easy to follow.

Response To Kevin's Comment: Kevin I would just like to thank you for your comment. You were indeed correct when you said that my project focused on comparing the benefits of home and hospitals birth's. I tried my best to support this "new" idea of home birth and how that can be a peaceful alternative to the nightmarish industrial atrocity which is hospital birth. To help communicate this idea more I interviewed two adults with different perspectives on birth.  I am a supporter for the home birth movement, but thank you for saying the way I presented the information and the many sources I used helped me to create a persuasive paper. I also agree with you on the cliches idea, how much harder would writing and life be without cliches. Sometimes I think do I have to go back and take out the cliche even though, it happens to just be like that naturally. I will try and fix my grammar mistakes by posting my blogs on a word document first and reading it over once. Thanks for the advice Kevin.
    
 Ben's Comment Said:It seems clear that for your project you were focusing on the differences between home and hospital births. Using evidence such as financial reasons and the comfort of the women, you support home birth as a solid alternative to the mechanical process of hospital births.

This topic matters to me because it is something that I intend to consider highly when having children of my own in the future. Although I am not the one who will ultimately be making the final decision, having this information is essential for women that are unsure of where to give birth. The conclusions made in your project are some that should be observed by all women today.

I really liked the way you were able to connect your topic to your personal life by speaking to your mother. Her opinion demonstrates the ignorance (no offense to Sheline of course) that you depict in your project.

One suggestion I would make would be to incorporate the opinions of any mothers who had experienced a home birth and observed how she felt about the debate. However, I understand that for some people this might be hard to come by. Overall, good job!

 Response To Ben's Comment: Ben I would just like to thank you for the comment. You were correct my project did try and focus on differences between home and hospital birth. I tried to support home birth as a solid alternative for hospital birth's without being to biased. I didn't want to necessarily sway my readers to one side, rather than just providing as much information as I knew about both types of births. I hope many people read my blogs particularly females since they will be the ones literally doing the birth. I personally would have liked my blog better if I would have interviewed more people, maybe a male's perspectives would have been interesting to hear also. As far as your suggestion, I did interview a mother who experienced a home birth, that would be my godmother. It's towards the end of my homework 42 if you don't believe me.


     

HW 44: Comment's On Other People's Projects

For Sharif( Classmate):
Shairf it seems as though your post was about gathering information about people's understanding of birth. You really seemed passionate about this topic since you took the time out to venture out into the city and figure out what the common people knew regarding the topic. Since the common people are the majority of people in the city it's important that they understand birth and be knowledgeable about it.

One aspect of your post that I particularly valued was the fact that you used your connections(college now class id card) to get into Hunter College to find out what people who are seeking more knowledge, and are supposedly more educated than the average citizen know about birth. It's a very creative idea I don't think many more people thought of going to a decent college in the city and interviewing regular students, as well as pre-nursing students. Your elevator speech in class really made me want to go to your blog and watch these interviews.

A reason why I think your project matters is because the common people are the majority of people that are affected by birth. It's most important for them to be educated and knowledgeable about such an important aspect of life that many people involve themselves in. These people need to be prepared for for brith and I really think by you going to Hunter College and investigating people's opinions, you tried to really see what's in people's minds. Since were both enrolled in a Psychology class in Hunter, I think that helped with your drive to uncover what was in the Hunter student's heads.

I would have appreciated more from you on this topic.Although your blog was solid and much better than mines, I think if you would have maybe tried to educate people at Hunter more after you found out how little they knew. Perhaps posting fliers with some knowledge we learned from the unit on the bulletin boards on some of the floors, or just handing them out to students would have helped. If that wasn't possible you could have had sheets that told the Hunter students how to educated themselves better by having the names of the books we read this unit, or even the name of the movie we all watched.  Clearly you didn't need to do any of this since your blog and elevator speech were solid, but there just suggestions. Nicely done Sharif I'm very proud of your work here.

For Devin(Classmate):

Devin it seems as though your post was about a simple yet extremely important idea. Knowing when to cut the umbilical cord  doesn't seem that important however, your blog helped show me and hopefully your other readers that it truly is. I sensed the battle between medical and natural in your blog because, you stated the perspectives of both natural and medical views.

One aspect of your post that I particularly valued was the fact that it seemed as though you tried to not be to biased with the side you picked. It was clear to me that you were pro waiting at least one minute to cut the umbilical cord. When you initially opened up your arguments you started off stating three reasons why the cord is cut. This was a smart decision because if your readers like me didn't know the reasons, we can learn them from you.

A reason why I think your project matter is because I think many Americans don't know how important the placenta is towards the babies and the mother's health. This obviously raises concerns because we want people that are directly involved in birth to know as much as possible, so that they can make the best decision for their family.  I also agree with what Andy said in his comment, you definitely should have showed the flier to more people two is certainly not enough. This information that the public needs to get it's hands on. Please take Andy's advice and try and scan it so more people can see what great work you've done.

I would have appreciated more from you on this topic. Although you blog was solid and much better than mines, I think you could have tried to compare umbilical cord rates across the nation to find out where there were more and less cords being cut and why? You also could have compared umbilical cord rates between countries with better healthcare systems than us such as France? Clearly you didn't need to do any of this since your blog and elevator speech were solid, but there just suggestions.

Nicely done Devin I think your blog and speech were the best in the class. Keep up the good work.

For Bianca( Thinking/Writing Teammate):


Bianca,
    It seems as though your blog was initially about abortion plain and simple. You talked about the political aspects of abortion, the two sides of abortions pro life or anti life, and briefly talked about Republicans and Democrats opinions on the matter.

     One aspect of the post that I particularly valued was the fact that you found people of different races, and genders to get some diversity on your interviews. The more diverse the people you chose to interview the wider range of responses you'll get. You also interviewed people of our age group to find out how people in society attempted to influence us to a certain side on the topic. This showed me how my peers deal with such a touchy topic, and how they framed their own opinion based on information around them.

     A reason why I think your project matters to me is because you are absolutely right here in the U.S. people have been 'coaxed' with these ideas of freedom. People think they since they have rights they can do and express what they believe. It turns out as of now there is no right answer to abortion. There are strong arguments made by both sides. You are simply trying to uncover how people came about forming their opinions. I hope while doing so you were able to evaluate yourself also and see how you formed your opinion, what those in your family think, and if you think you are subject to change?

     Although your post was solid and much better than mines there is still some room for improvement. I think your post would have been much stronger if you opened your blog first exp laing what abortion is. You can't assume your readers will always know information on the topic your covering. You did this a little but I  think more would have been better. While doing this you should have some cited sources also. Then you should have had a paragraph for what Republicans and Democrats feel on the issue. Giving the readers background information to make them feel educated is a good thing. You definitely don't need to take my advice since your post was so good, there simply suggestions. Keep up the good work, your post was creative and engaging. Including a video first is a great way to draw readers in. Thank you for your work.
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Mentor and Protege Comment Below:


From Stephen(Protege):
For Abdul,
  Your post is basically about the differences between hospital and home births. You say the pros and cons of each, and how they affect people in America. This is a wise move because it's good to be able to connect your topic back to the public since there the ones being affected by this.

  One aspect of the post I particularly valued was the interviews with your family. The humor presented in the interviews really helped to bring life to your blog. Honestly without them, I thought it was kind of boring. Hearing genuinely true, and partially ignorant ideas about birth was exciting.

  A reason why your project matters to me is because you provided a ton of information and research that sounds true to the public. It's one thing to just give the public information, but you went above and beyond and gave your readers pros and cons from both natural and hospital birth without being terribly biased.

  For some nice constructive criticism of your blog, it would have been greatly appreciated if you interviewed
 more than two people. Hearing people's opinions on such an important topic would have been terrific and would have helped bring life to the blog. Also if you would have made a flier or a poster with all this information so that your information can be more accessible to the public would have helped spread  awareness. Perhaps, posting fliers in your school or on a bulletin board. Overall solid job Abdul I look forward to your work in your next unit. Keep up the good work.

From Bianca(Thinking/Writing Team):

Abdul,
Your post was certainly informative and interesting to read. You start out by giving an objective view point of how both hospital and home birth have its risks and benefits. However, you ease into your core argument that it should not be about what is most convenient and best for the doctor but, what is best for the mother in labor. Such aspects have much more importance than a group of people arguing their stance even when the group is not participating in giving birth.

I valued the fact that you provided substantial information and statistics regarding the ridiculous aspects of our birthing industry. I had known that giving birth in a hospital cost money but, I didn't know the approximate cost. $13,000 is big number and I'm sure every woman has to spend a great deal of time thinking about what other expenses may come in the future. I also valued that you made this project somewhat personal by talking to your grandmother about it. I, for one, would never have had the motivation to talk to my own grandmother, simply because I'd imagine the conversation to be incredibly awkward.

Your project matters to me because you express sincere concern for the woman's role in the birthing process. It's clear that your intentions as a writer and an informer were to persuade us of a certain stance instead of being objective. I feel respected as a woman because you argue what I would probably argue if someone were to go against my wishes if I were to give birth. I also admire the fact that you went out of your way to interview the people around you.

Your project definitely had its strong points - your quotes and evidence, among other things, demonstrate that. I noticed a few mistakes here and there in your paper so, I'd say that proofreading your work once or twice would only clarify your point and make your argument more concise and coherent. In your first paragraph, you mention "The obgyn....more safe" (line 6). You should never assume that the reader has prior knowledge of what your discussing. OBGYN is an abbreviation for obstetrician and from my knowledge, not everyone knows this - I know I did not before we started the birth unit. You list a lot of statistics but, they lack analysis. I wouldn't go as far as to say that there was no analysis at all but, investigating the emotional aspects of the statistics, I believe, would be well worth your while.

Aside from that, I enjoyed reading your writing piece. The ending "If I had a home birth, you might not be here grateful Abdul." It might've been a tad cliche but, I happen to like cliches, for they are understood by most and are worded in a way that is considered clever. Thank you for your work! It has always been a pleasure to read your work - I look forward to future insights.

Bianca


From Ben: 
It seems clear that for your project you were focusing on the differences between home and hospital births. Using evidence such as financial reasons and the comfort of the women, you support home birth as a solid alternative to the mechanical process of hospital births.

This topic matters to me because it is something that I intend to consider highly when having children of my own in the future. Although I am not the one who will ultimately be making the final decision, having this information is essential for women that are unsure of where to give birth. The conclusions made in your project are some that should be observed by all women today.

I really liked the way you were able to connect your topic to your personal life by speaking to your mother. Her opinion demonstrates the ignorance (no offense to Sheline of course) that you depict in your project.

One suggestion I would make would be to incorporate the opinions of any mothers who had experienced a home birth and observed how she felt about the debate. However, I understand that for some people this might be hard to come by. Overall, good job!


From Ms.D(Mentor):
Hi Abdul

This is a very interesting topic. Your paper is quite well organized, and you use a variety of reliable sources. As with your project on death, I enjoyed reading the insights that you gained from interviewing your family.

I agree with Bianca, though, that your paper would have been stronger had you provided more in-depth analysis. You say that hospital birth is a “nightmarish industrial atrocity” and state that “the reasons why less than 1% of woman do not feel comfortable having a home birth is either due to ignorance or fear.” However, I did not find compelling evidence or analysis in your paper to back up that claim. You make the valid point that hospital births are far costlier than home births for uninsured women, using cited statistics to back up your claim; however, your evidence also shows that home births are twice as expensive as hospital births for the far greater proportion of women who do have health insurance. You mention that women who encounter complications can be transported by ambulance to the hospital, but the time lost waiting for an ambulance can lead to unnecessary loss of life (I know this from having a friend with complications, and also just did some quick research: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10465473). Maybe there are factors that outweigh this risk, but they were not clearly presented. Beyond the statistics about cost and the interviews with your relatives, who did not seem particularly in favor of home birth, you did not provide any convincing reason to believe that home birth is a clearly a superior choice that women would eschew only out of “ignorance or fear.”

My father was born in the same bed as his father, in their family’s home. I don’t have anything in particular against home births, and in fact I would have liked to know more about the benefits involved. I’m only giving you a bit of a hard time because it’s especially important to back up strong statements about controversial subjects! As always, I enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for sharing.

From Kevin:


This project focused on comparing the benefits of home and hospital birth. In the project you support home birth as a good alternative for hospital birth. You also show other people's opinions and education about home birth.
As someone that doesn't support the home birth movement, the way you presented information, as well as the range of sources created a pretty persuasive paper.
This paper matters to me because it advocates for home birth, which is basically the opposite of my project. It is nice to read what some other people think on the same issue.
Bianca said some of what you wrote was cliche, but as Andy will soon realize cliches make the world go round. Keep the cliches, but watch out for grammar mistakes, and keeping your ideas easy to follow.


From Tamiko:
your project really picked at the key reason why many do not know of the alternative of home births. our country, the United States, do not provide the community with enough information to know of a hospitals birth's faults.connecting to the United States healthcare system was also very clever and essential to birth unit. your project stands out to me because me because you touch upon little bit of everything. to make your project better i feel you have many clever ideas but you must intertwine them together. something i didnt look to do myself. good job abdoul

HW 42: Pregnancy and Birth Culminating Project

      Hospital birth and home birth are topics which are slowly becoming more popular, since all of a sudden  midwives are beginning to become more known in America. Information about both hopsital birth and home birth is now available to the public.Of course since this hopsital birth is in a way the alternative to the nightmarish industrial atrocity(hospital birth) the information is a bit harder to come across. The obgyn that usually  support hospital births  argue that better technology,and  a community of doctors in the hospital make birth more safe. The other side of this argument is those who support midwifery which is usually pro home births argue that both women and babies are safer in a home birth, and many of the deaths for both mother and childbirth are because of doctors interfering when little interference needs to be done. These are topics that people usually just pick there opinions and argue for the side they believe in. This is pointless since everyone has there own opinion. What we should be trying to answer is what are the factors that exist for both hospital and home births and how do these environments  comfort and discomfort the woman giving birth. The most important aspect of giving birth is doing what will make the  woman and the child  as safe as possible. Another important aspect to look at would be which environment can  comfort  the woman best. 

      Money seems to definently be one of the main factors in birth that affects a womans decision of what kind of birth she will have. In America health insurance is a something that 50+ Americans lack. I didn't even know that birth in a hospital cost money. To me that doesn't even make any sense. The cost of a vaginal delivery with no complications ranges is about $13,000 (Baby Delivery Cost) For woman without health insurance knowing that you will need to pay thousands to have your baby in a hospital is something that doesn't sound pleasant at all and may discomfort a woman if she thinks about that to much during birth. Patients with insurance usually still have to pay about $1000 so there not even off the hook. Cesarean sections which happen much more often now than needed cost even more money to do and cost about $18,000 on average. Perhaps that's why they happen so often now,so they can steal the patients money.  Dr. Moritz said during his speech to our class , "Obstetrics is 98% not exciting, and 2% sheer terror...but hospitals are good for when you have that terror." (Business of Being Born) The doctor thinks the idea of hospitals in this case are helpful because when people think of hospitals usually then they have a sense of safety. The Business of Being Born also explains to some extent   the unnecessary treatments that cost the woman more money  in hospitals, such as episiotomies without informed consent of the patient since there all drugged up from epidural s. It's the womans money how can you ignore her wishes. Have doctors ever considered this woman may not be able to afford the medical care she is receiving and they should listen to what she or her partner says.

     In the beginning of the century, 95% of birth's were done at home.  That's when the doctors took over the medical industry now  less than one percent of all women  give birth at home. (Business of Being Born) The mediums that I have recently been exposed to (including both Business of Being Born and Birth) have insisted that home birth offers much more choice for the women than hospital birth and is the better choice. Women who chose home birth are given the ability to make their own decisions on the treatment they receive, because if they try a home birth and a c-section needs to be done they could call an ambulance since,hospitals are open 24 hours a day, and if something were to go wrong in a home birth, an ambulance could be called to take the mother to the hospital. Home birth are generally cheaper than being at a hospital. This should help all the Americans without help insurance "Midwife fee is about $2000 on average. This  covers prenatal care, birth, postpartum check up, newborn check up and screening." (Home Birth Cost and How to Pay for it)  This financial advantage over hospital births should provide a comfort advantage for most women. Other than the  midwife itself , typically their aren't many others to support the family, but this does mean that she has the option to pick and choose whoever she wants to be there. 

      After continuing my research online about comforting factors I wanted to interview someone that had been through both the home and hospital birth experiences. Fortunately, my godmother who lives in my building has had both situations. Her name will be  kept anonymous, but she is the mother of four. Her two sons were born in the hospital, but her two  daughters  were born right in her apartment. When I asked about how her experience was in the hospital, she said, ''Well, medically everything went wrong for her two hospital birth's she had c-sections which is extremely dangerous especially when you have two of them.  Having all the hospital staff around me was much more comforting for me since that seemed to be the norm. " Her description of her  home birth journey for her two daughters was "Now that was quite the experience, it felt weird doing something like that because I know I'm going to be living here for a while and every time I sit in the living room I'm going to think about it.  If something would have went wrong it would have been traumatizing to live in that house. I was so scared but my body prevailed and everything went right." she said. It seems like for her hospital birth was more comforting with the birth process itself but it was also more expensive even with her health insurance.

     In the end only the woman who giving birth can decide what she wants because both hospital births and home births have different aspects that people like. I think  the reasons why less than 1% of woman do not feel comfortable having a home birth is either due to ignorance or fear. These both make sense since it's only just beginning to become a popular topic. My mother told me she didn't have a home birth and she said" Don't only poor people who can't afford medical care and don't have health insurance do that kind of stuff. Why would you ask me that? What if something went wrong which it did that's  why you had a hospital birth like all the other normal people” If I had a home birth you might not be here be greatful Abdul.

   Bibliography MLA

     1."Hospital Maternity-Related Procedures and Practices." Department of Health. New York State Department of Health, December 2010. Web. 31 Mar 2011  http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/facilities/hospital/maternity/
     2."Hospital Birth." The Center of Unhindered Living. N.p., n.d. Web. 31 Mar 2011. http://www.unhinderedliving.com/hospital

     3.Griebenow, Jennifer L. "Home Birth and Out-of-Hospital Birth: Is It Safe?."Homebirth- Safety and Benefits. N.p., n.d. Web. 31 Mar 2011. http://www.gentlebirth.org/ronnie/homejjg.

    4."New York County Hospitals Maternity Information." Department of Health. New York Department of Health, February 2009. Web. 31 Mar 2011.   http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/facilities/hospital/maternity/new_york.htm. 

    5."Birthing Center ." NY Womens health. Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center, New York , n.d. Web. 31 Mar 2011

http://www.nywomenshealth.com/birthing-center-st-lukes-hospital-new-york.htm
   6."Baby Delivery Cost." CostHelper. N.p., n.d. Web. 5 Apr 2011. http://www.costhelper.com/cost/child/baby-delivery

    7.    "Home Birth Cost and How to Pay for it." Home Birth Guide. N.p., 2009. Web. 5 Apr 2011. http://www.home-birth-guide.com/homebirth-cost.

HW 41: Independent Research

     Topic:  NYC hospitals and birth centers - statistics, contacts, perspectives 


     Annotated Bibliography: 
1."Hospital Maternity-Related Procedures and Practices." Department of Health. New York State Department of Health, December 2010. Web. 31 Mar 2011  http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/facilities/hospital/maternity/
This source includes data about cesarean sections in New York City. There is also information about what hospitals do differently than others, basically listing pros and cons. 
2."Hospital Birth." The Center of Unhindered Living. N.p., n.d. Web. 31 Mar 2011. http://www.unhinderedliving.com/hospital
This source provides information about  the pros and cons of giving birth in a hospital.

3.Griebenow, Jennifer L. "Home Birth and Out-of-Hospital Birth: Is It Safe?."Homebirth- Safety and Benefits. N.p., n.d. Web. 31 Mar 2011. http://www.gentlebirth.org/ronnie/homejjg
This source includes statistics and details on home birth, and  hospital birth. The article appears to be pro home birth so it is biased.

4."New York County Hospitals Maternity Information." Department of Health. New York Department of Health, February 2009. Web. 31 Mar 2011.   http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/facilities/hospital/maternity/new_york.htm. 

This source contains data about a lot of  New York City hospitals. There is data to compare and contrast about child death rates,c-section rates, and etc.

5."Birthing Center ." NY Womens health. Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center, New York , n.d. Web. 31 Mar 2011

http://www.nywomenshealth.com/birthing-center-st-lukes-hospital-new-york.htm
This source contains information about a specific birthing center located in Roosevelt hospital which is in Manhattan. There is information about the medical work done in a birthing center and there is even an 
explanation of what a birthing center is.


    My project is basically going to attempt to examine hospital maternity care and the process of birth there. I am most likely going to be able to record myself at a hospital on my I touch. I hope then I'll be able to show a clip of an  experience in a hospital. I hope this project will help me to get a real feeling of what women have to go through when giving birth. This will also help me validify the information from the midwifes, obgyn's, movies, and books.